High avastha and mistakes
Date: 01-05-05 19:53
Lately, I've been hearing a lot about sants and brahmgianees. Firstly, let me state that I believe that most of us aren't at the avasthaa to determine who a brahmgianee is and we should refrain from giving these labels. However, this doesn't mean that gursikhs can't reach very high avasthas. Of course they can. How high? Only they and god know.
What I want to discuss is, if someone is of a very high spiritual avasthaa, are they then unquestionable and above making mistakes? I personally don't think so. Our guru's taught us many things and some of these things were taught using examples. One example comes to mind. Baba Atal. He was the son of Baba Gurditta and the grandson of Guru Hargobind Sahib Jee. Baba Atal himself was of a very high avastha as well. Were Baba Jee around today, he would be a super brahmgianee. The powers he had, todays babay can't even touch. He had the power to bring the dead back to life. Doing this of course, is against the will of god and against gurmat. Baba Jee was of a an unbelievable avastha and came from the guru's own family. However, baba jee, feeling sorry for someone, made a mistake and brought someone to life. For this, he had to pay with his life. A pooran gursikh like baba Atal jee made a mistake. Yes, a mistake. Yet, todays gursikhs think that the 'sants' of today are above making mistakes. Even the mention of a mistake next to the name of a well known 'sant' will cause all hell to break loose. We need to get over this and realise that only Guru Jee is above mistakes. Everyone else can be wrong.
There are more examples as well from the guru's time. We should learn from these lessons that the guru's taught us.
And a reply:
Author: Jagjitsingh
Date: 01-06-05 15:15
waheguru ji kekhalsa, waheguru ji ke fateh
Pyare jio, i have all the respect in the world for high awastaa Gursikhs. We, youth, discuss Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh, Baba Jarnial Singh ji, Baba Attar singh ji and others. But I think the example above of Baba Atal ji is excellent.
Which bhramgiani is Aap Paremeshar. Surely that is our 10 Guru Sahibaan themselves. They were the true bhramgianis. It is about them that we can clearly state they were perfect. Bani states, everyones makes mistakes, but only the Guru is perfect.
Many Gursikhs could have been Gurus. For example Baba Buddha Ji. He was so blessed, that he gave the Guruship to our Guru sahibaan. Surely he could have been a Guru. He was much higher than any calling themselves a bhramgiani today. But the reality was he did not, he was not worthy. Only the 10 Sahibaan were. He must have made some mistakes, even though he had every Gursikh virtue in him. He was perfect in his virtues, but only the Guru is the perfect being.
Many of our high avastha gursikhs, I believe are perfect in their virtues, and their jeevans are ideal reflections of Gurmat. But the Perfect Being was Sahib Siri Gobind Singh ji, and our other Guru Sahibaan.
As Gursikhs we should be sensible enough, to realise the words Bhramgiani Aap Parmeshar should only be used for them. Otherwise we shall some day feel disappointed in those we hold at this level. The fundamental truth always reveals itself, and I believe recent events show this. It may hurt for those who feel this, but we should move on and realise on Guru sahibaan and Gurbani are perfect. If we put pporan faith in Gurbani alone, we will never be let down or disappointed.
waheguru ji ke khalsa, waheguru ji ke fateh
13 Comments:
'(wish I had written it!)'
you would first have to be smart enough to write it.
HAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!
he IS(smart) now since the past few months(since his stance on dhunni changed):D
God, Just look at Davinder singhs last post, you guys are really messed up if i was Navjot or tapoban singh ji i would be a little embarrassed
Anonymous,
Learn how to use your name when you post. I'd be embarrassed if I were you, for being such a coward.
Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh!
Anyone can see that my comment was not intended as written. If you can't see that thats your problem not mine.
Why always bring in Bhai Navjot Singh and the Tapoban Singhs? talk about being cheap! Neither Bhai Navjot Singh nor the Tapoban Singhs were mentioned in this whole post.
If you have an agenda against them, you should e-mail me and get their phone numbers so you can discuss with them directly...
Next time you try to do this: keep the words of the guru in mind:
SANT_KAE_DOOKHAN_ARJA_GHATTAEH||
SANT_KAE_DOOKHAN_JAM_TAY_NAHEE_SHUTTAEH||
Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh!
GIVE IT A REST, YOU GUYS ARE ALL SO CHILDISH, DHUNNI IS GOOD ENOUGH FOR GIANI NAHAR SINGH JI, BHAI JEEVAN SINGH JI, POORAN JI, DR.HARDIAL SINGH DR DHARSHAN SINGH JI, THE LATE BHAI JOGINDER SINGH JI, THE LATE BHAI AMOLAK SINGH JI, BUT ITS NOT GOOD FOR YOU GUYS
That's a pretty solid argument, anonymous.
I love how that last comment was a reply to a post about worshipping brahmgyanis!! lol
I used to use the same argument, I dont know why I am against it. I think one of the main reasons though is the fact that most AKJ people think they HAVE TO do it in keertan. They will practice tunes for it, practice where to put it.
Whereas if and when it was done in the past, it was done from the heart, with love, and VERY VERY spontaneously. VERY FEW keertanis do this today and the over abundance of every tom dick and harry doing dhuni heartlessly and pointlessly, annoys me.
"the over abundance of every tom dick and harry doing dhuni heartlessly and pointlessly, annoys me."
Yeah you know whats in those kirtanis hearts? Being annoyed by dhunni is ridiculous, it just shows how big your ego is, you're thinking while they're doing kirtan, 'they are doing it so heartlessly! whats the point?'.
did someone just say motta chewhah? :S
Manjot how can you complain about so many different things in one lifetime. i remember you writing about a post about how ragis sell keertan and there cd's. It was your dad was it not that sells his cd's for 5 dollars almost forcing people to buy them. I hate bringing this up, but this is where you start to sound like a hypocrite, this is where people dont take you seriously and they see why your considered childish
Another Coward.
Learn how to post your name, people.
I wasn't going to reply in detail, but the last anonymous post really got to me.
You're a pathetic, cowardly excuse for a human being.
We don't live in the medieval era where Manjot is responsible for the actions of his father. I know Manjot Singh pretty well, and although he loves his father, its not like they agree on every single issue.
So how do the actions of Manjot's father make Manjot look like a hypocrite??
And then you accuse Manjot of being childish, how do people like you live with yourselves?
You anonymously and rudely post on other people's sites and then you use twisted and baseless logic to accuse them of being "childish"?
I don't even know you, but I could tell by your comment that you're infinitely more childish than Manjot Singh.
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