Relative Morality
Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!
Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!
I just went to a chinese store with a Singh and they were selling some disgusting things. Baby Octopus, all sorts of parts of different animals etc..
So this brought up, is morality relative? I say: No. Gurmat says: No. A canibal may think it is perfectly alright to eat another human's flesh, just as a meat eater may think it is moral to eat meat of another animal, letting it suffer in pain. But after leaving that store today, I have come to the conclusion that anyone that eats meat is immoral and heartless.
I know that may be a mean thing to say, but seeing the way people can treat animals and chew on flesh that might just as well be their own, I cannot help but say that. To me, one who eats the meat of an animal is the exact same as one who eats the meat of a human. They look the same to me. Do they not bleed the same blood? sweat the same sweat? cry the same tears?
Gurmat is on my side on this and my heart is pained (and my mind grossed out) whenever I see others eating meat.
I'm not going to bore you with a long lecture on why its wrong or everything guru sahib says about it. So, in conclusion, meat eaters are immoral and heartless and theres no way around it.
Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!
I just went to a chinese store with a Singh and they were selling some disgusting things. Baby Octopus, all sorts of parts of different animals etc..
So this brought up, is morality relative? I say: No. Gurmat says: No. A canibal may think it is perfectly alright to eat another human's flesh, just as a meat eater may think it is moral to eat meat of another animal, letting it suffer in pain. But after leaving that store today, I have come to the conclusion that anyone that eats meat is immoral and heartless.
I know that may be a mean thing to say, but seeing the way people can treat animals and chew on flesh that might just as well be their own, I cannot help but say that. To me, one who eats the meat of an animal is the exact same as one who eats the meat of a human. They look the same to me. Do they not bleed the same blood? sweat the same sweat? cry the same tears?
Gurmat is on my side on this and my heart is pained (and my mind grossed out) whenever I see others eating meat.
I'm not going to bore you with a long lecture on why its wrong or everything guru sahib says about it. So, in conclusion, meat eaters are immoral and heartless and theres no way around it.
11 Comments:
veerjee, i understand how you feel about such things. it is really disgusting for us vegetarians to see others indulge in gorging themselves on the meat of other animals etc. meat consumption is really disgusting indeed and these animals are slaughtered so cruelly. especially now with Eid-ul-Adha coming up very soon, lots of sheep and goats have been imported and i saw a lorry full of them being brought....to where?? i don''t wanna think......they looked so pitiful....i would love to agree with you that meat eaters are immoral and stuff but my better sense tells me to disagree. we can't just make sweeping statements that "you're immoral if you eat meat".......maybe a less harsher term to describe them would be more appropriate. Thank Goodness sikhee prevents us from committing such heinous sins by disallowing meat.
In Japuji Sahib (18th pauree) Guru jee says
Countless fools, blinded by ignorance.
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Countless thieves and embezzlers.
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Countless impose their will by force.
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Countless cut-throats and ruthless killers.
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Countless sinners who keep on sinning.
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Countless liars, wandering lost in their lies.
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Countless wretches, eating filth as their ration.
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Countless slanderers, carrying the weight of their stupid mistakes on their heads.
Nanak describes the state of the lowly.
I cannot even once be a sacrifice to You.
Whatever pleases You is the only good done,
You, Eternal and Formless One. ||18||
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Guru sahibs realized that there are countless such people who are lost, sinners, liars, ruthless killers etc. But in the end Guru jee says "Jo tudh bhave saaee bhali kaar..." Only that is good that pleases You (God).
Also Guru jee says in another shabad
"Mortal beings are attached to greed and duality. Their minds are unripe and unfit, and will not accept the Dye of His Love. But their lives are transformed through the Word of the Guru's Teachings. Meeting with the Guru, the Primal Being, they are dyed in the color of His Love. ||2||" [Kaanda M:4 Ang 1310]
Its by the Grace of Guru that one attains the merciful nature (dayaa or pity which is one of 5 Gunns according to Gurbani) and one is taken out of darkness and given Gurmat knowledge. We should feel fortunate and thankful (optimistic way of life) to meet the Guru and have gotten this knowledge rather than criticize (pessimistic approach) those who are simply lost without the teachings of Guru.
Also, I just read on Tapoban.org a post by Kulbir Singh. I am quoting. This in reference to meaning of shabad by Guru Arjan Dev jee on Ang 70
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According to the Hindustani society following are the four great sins (chaar kilvikh) that are being mentioned in this pankiti:
Brahmin Hatiya (killing a learned person or a Brahmin)
Kaili Hatiya (killing a cow)
Kanjhka Hatiya (selling your daughter or killing your daughter)
Eating from a sinner who has done the above stated sins.
Guru Sahib while talking about the extreme situation of a sinner in this shabad has used the accepted 4 sins in the society.
Guru Sahib is saying that even if you have done all these 4 sins thought to be great sins by the world and even if you are an “Assur Sanghaar” (a grossly evil person worthy of death) still if such person starts japping naam, he would become pure.
Daas,
Kulbir Singh
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See these things as good qualities/deeds are very ephermal, i.e. keep changing as per His Command. Lots of worst papi's have attained high avastha by Guru jee's grace. Sajjan Thug, Bhomia Chor, Ganika, Koda Rakhshas etc. are some of the countless ones. Sajjan had house full of bones of people he had killed when his mind changes after hearing Keertan by Dhan Guru Nanak Dev Sahib jee.
I am just trying to say that it does not seem right to dismiss one and "declare" them as immortal if today one is eating meat. The situation may change in a moment and one who seems the most Gursikh may fall if its the Will of God and the most immortal may be uplifted to the Highest spiritual state.
Asa kee vaar 16th Pauri says
"Pauree:
All are within Your mind; You see and move them under Your Glance of Grace, O Lord.
You Yourself grant them glory, and You Yourself cause them to act.
The Lord is the greatest of the great; great is His world. He enjoins all to their tasks.
If he should cast an angry glance, He can transform kings into blades of grass.
Even though they may beg from door to door, no one will give them charity. ||16||"
animals dont cry
what's your evidence to prove that animals do not cry?
There's also something to be said about us judging someone. How moral is it for us to look down upon someone and judge them as a sinner? Especially if they commit that sin out of ignorance. I think this is one particularly powerful aspect of daya, that we can look upon sinners with compassion and not see them as sinners. I believe that this kind of daya leads to increased humility. This way we can know that 'I am not good, noone is bad'. This is different from judging the act, independant of the person, as sinful.
-Sundeep Singh
Great comments, really make me think..
a Scientific report recently showed that Plants cry out as well when butchered, what is your response to this???
how do you knwo th eplant doesn't fel pain, just ebcause it can't express it???
A plant is living.
Maas Maas Kar Moorakh Chareh
(was myself recently stuck in this issue)
so that means we shouldn't eat plants?
That's a baseless lie. If you're going to tell a lie, at least recognize that someone is going to ask for something to substantiate your lies. Do you have any substantiation for the story of plants crying? No. You don't. You liar.
Anonymous said...
so that means we shouldn't eat plants?
4:00 PM
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No ti means we shoudln't argue liek fools over whether to eat meat or nt or whats moral what isn't.
Although Mkhalsa has apoitn it coudl be argued!
two sides of each coin
Anonymous said...
That's a baseless lie. If you're going to tell a lie, at least recognize that someone is going to ask for something to substantiate your lies. Do you have any substantiation for the story of plants crying? No. You don't. You liar.
4:24 PM
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Here's reference bhaji/bhenji
and let's stop calling each others liars and start assumign things, and start discussing like brothers and sisters which we are, and not begin mud throwing at each other!
http://www.parkc.org/plantsfeelings.htm
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